i am not trying to be sly or trick you.
these questions are the ones that i would love to ask the elders that occasionally come to visit me.
or satan's (at least sometimes?
It sounds to me like you're getting ready to take the place of the governing body when everything crashes - is that a correct assumption or did I misunderstand??
I wouldn't word it quite that way, and I don't think by any means that I am the only one whom Jehovah will use. But, I do think that when the high become low and the first last, and all that, that Jehovah intends to use insignificant ones to take the lead during the final phase. / You Know
hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.
the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.
datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.
Yadira Angelini:
I have been thinking about your thread.
That's good. That's why I write, in order to provoke a little bit of thought.
As I can recall, some media news does do what you mentioned. They are that way when exposing the Catholic Church. Why are you doing the same?What do you mean?
In other words, what is good for the chicken is good for the roster, don't you think?I am not sure what you mean. But, I can tell you now, and I have written about it before concerning the media and how they manipulate the masses, that it's not just anti-JW stuff, I don't accept anything at face value that comes through the mainstream media.
How come you point at the Dateline program when the Watchtower magazines are so malicious when they expose their news and articles?Well, I guess the simple answer is that I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I wonder how could you still be a JW reading so many facts about your religion; at least, the stuff presented here on this forum.My writings should make it plain that as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, my faith in Jehovah God and my knowledge of him doesn't depend upon what the Watchtower does or doesn't do. I would only hope to inspire others to trust Jehovah and not allow themselves to be stumbled by the failings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc.
How could you explain the pain of many families when it comes to ex communion?I don't want to minimize the pain of others. I think what the brothers have done is terrible, and I have no doubt that Jehovah is going to settle accounts with everyone.
So what if Dateline exposed to much of it! Good! you know the people's pain by reading the threads on this forum.Dateline didn't expose too much, they gave a very limited peek at the reality, that's the issue that I have is that it is simply a narrow one-sided presentation. There are a lot of really fine people in Jehovah's organization, most people on this board have family and friends and loved ones in the truth who don't deserve to be tarred with the brush apostates want to smear us with, and there's no denying that apostates had a good bit of input with the producers of Dateline. But, hey that's fine too. I am happy that they had their 15 minutes of fame, as Andy Warhol said.
Who are you? what is your purpose on this forum? I haven't been here to long to understand you... to know who you are; or even to know if someone here has asked you before who you are.All I can say is that I am a zealot for Jehovah and that his word burns in me like a fire sometimes. It's hard to explain. / You Know
i am not trying to be sly or trick you.
these questions are the ones that i would love to ask the elders that occasionally come to visit me.
or satan's (at least sometimes?
hope you understand that by accepting the "apostates creed" and being privy to the secret handshake...
What do you think got my arm in a sling? LOL / You Know
http://tv.zap2it.com/news/dailynielsenrankings.html?26175 .
okay folks major news here.. dateline won its time slot with a 9.2 rating and a 16 percent share.. there are an estimated 102.2 million television households in the usa.
a single ratings point represents 1%, or 1,022,000 households.
Hey Hackaw, You may be onto something. You ought to present that to some cable network who might see a market in starting up an aposto-channel. LOL / You Know
i am not trying to be sly or trick you.
these questions are the ones that i would love to ask the elders that occasionally come to visit me.
or satan's (at least sometimes?
Thanks Dawn. Even though my YK Internet persona is admittedly a bit nasty, I hope you appreciate that in order to be effective I must maintain a certain level of animosity towards apostates. But, the truth is that I really do love people and feel badly for those who have fallen away. I share Paul's feelings when he said: "Who is stumbled and I am not incensed?" You know, of course, that I believe that at some point something very nasty and completely unexpected is going to erupt that is going to rock this old world like it has never been rocked before and that in all probability the Watchtower will get blown out of the water too. I am currently preparing a web site for the purpose of serving as a place where friends of Jehovah can consider what heretofore has not been presented to them. It is my belief that Jehovah, in his magnaminity, will leave open a window of opportunity for those who have been stumbled to return to their faith, provided they can muster the faith. Hopefully, when the system blows I will gain some measure of credibility and trust with those who are familiar with my writings on this forum, and elsewhere, so as to serve as a reliable guide for what is to occur during that concluding interim. / You Know
i am not trying to be sly or trick you.
these questions are the ones that i would love to ask the elders that occasionally come to visit me.
or satan's (at least sometimes?
Thought I would bring this up to the top for you. / You Know
hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.
the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.
datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.
If the Judicial systems can pervert justice what makes you think the Jehovah's Witness judicial body is above it?
Huh? What are you talking about? LOL / You Know
all, it is time for each of us to stand in unity.
please post your letters to dateline here.
there is strength in numbers.
Great idea. I should email Dateline my little piece on the Black art of propaganda. / You Know
i am not trying to be sly or trick you.
these questions are the ones that i would love to ask the elders that occasionally come to visit me.
or satan's (at least sometimes?
Jewel asks:
How can the elders claim things both ways? How can they be appointed by Jehovah and therefore must be followed without question, yet also be human and therefore prone to mistakes?
First, elders are not to be followed without question. Oftentimes elders are counseled by other elders or the circuit overseer, and sometimes they are even removed for various things. At times entire bodies of elders are removed for not serving the congregation well. So, it's not like the elders are not accountable to the Watchtower Society, and, of course, ultimately to Jehovah God. But, there are going to be problems. There's just no getting around it. Imagine how Jesus felt on the last night of his life, after having spent 3 years trying to teach his apostles a little bit about what it means to be a shepherd, and there they were at the Passover table having yet another dispute about which one of them was the top dog. Yet, the account says that Jesus loved them to the end.
Did the Holy Spirit allow men who were not qualified to be anointed as elders?The holy spirit usually doesn't intervene to rectify our mistakes. We each have to live with the consequences of our actions or inactions as the case may be. And Jehovah will definitely hold an accounting with elders. The letter of James says that not many Christians should be teachers because they will receive a heavier judgment. Or, as Christ said, the one whom people put in charge will have more demanded of them. Interestingly, Paul counseled elders not to hastily recommend a man for fear we might become sharers in his sins. So, the point is that it is possible for unqualified men to be chosen by those who do not carefully consider the qualifications of each candidate. And obviously elders making the wrong decisions can't expect Jehovah's holy spirit to bail them out. At times the elder body may be divided on a particular appointment. In fact, I had an experience where I was adamantly opposed to recommending a particular man, but my fellow elders at the time strongly persuaded me to go along with their judgment. So, I did, to my regret, and we had to remove him just a few months later when he ran amuck.
If Satan was testing the congregation, was he allowed to influence the anointing of unqualified men as elders?It is possible I suppose, but most of our problems are more than likely poor judgment. And too, at times a man may start off well and over time become tyrannical. Paul warned the elders of that scenario when he counseled elders not to recommend a newly converted man for fear he would later become puffed up with pride and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil. But, make no mistake about it, Jehovah does allow Satan considerable latitude to influence the leadership within the organization. For example, the Bible speaks very highly of king David, and yet the scripture says that Satan stood up and successfully tempted David to perform a census of his army, which brought Jehovah's judgment upon the nation. In the Corinthian congregation Paul sarcastically referred to the super-fine apostles, who were elders in Corinth, but whom Paul said were deceitful workers and false apostles under Satan's control. Lastly, bringing it up to our day, Daniel 11:35 says thatAnd some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work BECAUSE OF THEM… So, unquestionably, Jehovah’s purpose allows us to be tested by being subject to the errors of our leaders. The ultimate example of what God allows is the fact that Jesus handpicked his apostles, one of which was to become the most ignominious man that ever lived---Judas.
What about those who were disfellowshipped for questioning mistakes being made through the human imperfections of these elders? Weren't they right, after all?I have never personally known of such a case, but I am sure it’s happened before. The Bible makes mention in 3rd John that some tyrannical elder named Diotrophes hindered the brothers and tossed faithful ones out of the congregation.
Who caused these disfellowshippings, Satan or Jehovah's Spirit?Jehovah would never act in such away, but as the Scripture show with numerous examples and prophecies God allows the Devil a bit more operating room then most of Jehovah’s Witnesses would like to admit.
If Satan is allowed to use Jehovah's organization to "test" His people, how do we know that any article, appointment, prophecy, or arrangement is by Holy Spirit and not actually influenced by Satan?The Scriptures say that we should test every inspired expression to see if it originates with God. That means that each Christian is responsible for their own spirituality. The point is that we can’t allow other men to dictate every matter of our faith, otherwise we are simply following men as Satan accuses us of doing in the first place. Jesus gave the apostles some interesting advice, he told them to do whatever the Pharisees told them. So, for the remaining time that the Jews were under the yolk of the tyrannical pharisaic system Jesus told them just to submit to it. Similarly, what we have now is a very imperfect system, but it is what Jehovah has allowed for us and it does have some benefit. So, our challenge is simply to deal with it and allow Jehovah’s purpose of testing and refining to come to its completion, after which God Almighty is scheduled to turn the whole world, and our little organization included, upside down and shake it real good until the cream floats to the top.
If Satan can use Jehovah's organization, is it truly Jehovah's organization? Or Satan's (at least sometimes?)Yes, but, again, there is a point in time when Christ claims complete ownership of his congregation at which point the angels collect out all the bad boys and girls.
Hope that helps. You may enjoy reading this post that I wrote a few weeks back.
> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28050&site=3
/ You Know
hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.
the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.
datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.
You are nothing but a mere slanderer and a liar. / You Know
